Oct. 8, 2020. From Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The 1985 Mexico City Earthquake was an earthquake that happened in Mexico City on September 19, 1985. We had to give the Mayor of Mexico City a video presentation of how the implosions were done in the U.S. The oil boom was on. Location: Mexico. Subscribe for fascinating stories connecting the past to the present. Americans are very generous and they immediately began to collect and provide goods to load up airplanes. And, secondly, he observed that the pattern of destruction was very uneven, so while it was worse in some sections of the city than others, it was not uniform. That quickly spread from earthquake-related things to environmentally related things, the fact that Mexico City was such a polluted city. She was surrounded by this mob of people. Posted in Mexico City as a Minister Counselor for Public Affairs from 1985 to 1989, Ambassador Sally Grooms Cowal gives insight into some controversies surrounding Ambassador Gavin during her interview with Charles Stuart Kennedy beginning August 2001. Most of the items were legitimately needed, although during the first few days even the Mexicans didn’t really understand the extent of the damage and what was needed for relief. Q: I get the sense here that throughout this whole conversation, the earthquake and the aftermath didn’t do much to cement good Mexican-U.S. relations. Interested in Recording Your Oral History, Association for Diplomatic Studies & Training. And neither one of these figures probably counted Mexican-Americans or Mexicans that have family in the States. To this day, the Mexicans say it was less than 20,000. I told the Mexican employees they could return home, if they thought it was necessary. I didn’t think that was very strange. In fact, some of the neighborhoods close to it were badly damaged. I was quickly told that this was probably going to happen so it’s not a question of whether it is desirable or not, it is a question of making it happen. It was all got up in a few days as you might imagine right after the earthquake. In response, citizens organized their own rescue brigades. The leading newspaper of the day was called Excélsior, and it was truly an awful newspaper. I didn’t notice any great panic and couldn’t see any damaged buildings on that block. As Mexico City is situated on an ancient lakebed plateau … On September 19, 1985, at 7:17 A.M., a Richter magnitude 8.1 earthquake occurred on the Pacific coast of Mexico. Connie Gavin set up a foundation, very quickly, within a month, and collected money to bring kids that were badly maimed for re-constructive surgery in Los Angeles. Ambassador Gavin had to go to de La Madrid on some issues in order that we could help effectively. Otherwise I think it would have been much greater, because a lot of people were still out of the city or in small buildings and so on, not in these huge office towers. Its economic boom, known as the Mexican Miracle, encouraged heavy migration, and few politicians were eager to stem the flow of incoming labour with strict building cod… On September 19, 1985, the Mexico City area was struck by a devastating earthquake that killed at least 9,500 people. He sometimes felt that you had to talk tough to Mexicans…. Of course, the U.S. television networks were telling the U.S. about the situation, and as usual it was vastly overblown, probably unnecessarily scaring Americans with friends or relatives in Mexico City. I went onto the roof and I could see buildings collapsed within two or three blocks. Despite the fact that the disaster was one of the most powerful and destructive quakes ever to hit a populated area of the United States, ...read more, The 1964 Alaska earthquake, the strongest earthquake ever recorded in North America, struck Alaska’s Prince William Sound, about 74 miles southeast of Anchorage. Western Mexico is particularly vulnerable to earthquakes with the Pacific plate and Cocos plate moving against the North American plate actively. All Rights Reserved. Usually it was items that were needed, but sometimes Americans rush to clean out their basements and send whatever is available, and then they feel good and take a tax break. I took the stairs down to the lobby, and went across the street to the Sheraton Hotel. At any rate, he counted the number of buildings down and he made two observations to the press as he got off the helicopter. COWAL: Well, they would sometimes mention it, and that would cause problems, or they wouldn’t mention it, and that would cause problems, of course, with the embassy. The president was saying that they had lost 10,000 people, and Gavin made a public statement that there were 20,000 or more who had died. She is not going to be able to do anything material. Officials say at … Fortunately, the quake was early enough in the morning that people weren’t yet in their offices. Canadian Operation Name: (Mexico 1985) Canadian Operation Dates: 1985/09/19 – 1985/09/26. Of course, the Mexicans refused to accept his figure. One is of two American Embassy officials who attempted to save lives of people caught in downed buildings. These was a great crowd of people milling around. The 1985 Mexico City earthquake: an excerpt from “Shooter” ... They’d built a lot of the new buildings in Mexico City, with the elevator in the center of the building to form a steel core like the rods in reinforced concrete. They pulled a few survivors out of the rubble, but mostly these buildings just came right down. I remember many stories about heroism during those next few days. I knew that many Embassy people took in Mexicans and donated things and sympathized. In the aftermath of the 1985 earthquake, an early-alert earthquake warning system was established in Mexico City and other safety measures were enacted. The earthquake lasted around three minutes causing older buildings and poorly constructed infrastructure to fall. COWAL:  I think the most controversial thing that he [Ambassador Gavin] did, at least in my time there, happened just before I arrived. It is the country’s economic and cultural hub, as well as home to the offices of the federal government. John Gavin’s nomination by the President caused consternation and some disdain in the Mexican press and the public because he was identified as an actor. The Mexicans were profoundly dilatory about taking us up on our offers of help, and she wasn’t going to solve that problem. 5,000–45,000 dead 30,000 injured The 1985 Mexico City Earthquakewas an earthquakethat happened in Mexico Cityon September 19, 1985. I also remember some cases where overwork and exhaustion caused Embassy people to almost crack. Research a process analysis for errors in causal analysis is however the magnitude and type of strategy is required. You had one sentence. I told the State Department Operations Center that I was speaking on behalf of the Chargé and that the American staff was fine. We weren’t even sure they would be able to be sent the first couple of days. The Secret Service had great difficulty with the Mexican authorities maintaining any kind of crowd control around her. I remember the back wall of my secretary’s apartment just fell out into the back yard. That took some doing because I couldn’t get through readily. More than 400 buildings collapsed and thousands more were damaged. The powerful earthquake killed more than 10,000 and left another 30,000 others injured and as many as a quarter of a million people homeless. But, people said I calmly addressed the group, telling them what had happened as best we could determine. I remember helping develop a security plan of where to put the police lines to keep the people an appropriate distance away. It was 30 years ago today that at least 5,000 people — some estimates put the number at closer to 10,000, others at four times that — died in the powerful Mexico City earthquake of 1985. On the morning of September 19, 1985, an 8.1-magnitude earthquake hit the western states of Mexico and including Mexico City. I don’t remember feeling sorry for myself. Minister Counselor for Public Affairs in Mexico City from 1985 to 1989. The foreign media would always cover these things, and then report it, and then sometimes the Mexican media would be able to report on what the foreign media had presented. So I was in the Embassy the next night at 6 or 7 o’clock when the major aftershock came. The digging went on amid continuing screams from within the fallen buildings. Responses from the Mexican community and foreign governments came swiftly. I liaised with the Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance[in USAID] and we got a check cut for a million dollars. Then I went back to the airport at 3 a.m. to meet Ambassador Gavin. However, much of the damage was in Mexico City, which was constructed on an ancient lake bed whose soft sediments amplify seismic waves. Tips to keep in mind for World Mental Health Day; Oct. 5, 2020. https://www.history.com/topics/natural-disasters-and-environment/1985-mexico-city-earthquake. On September 21, 1999, an earthquake in Taiwan killed more than 2,400 people, destroyed or damaged thousands of buildings and left an estimated 100,000 people homeless. The death toll, a number which is disputed, is most often cited to be 10,000 people, but many agree that the number could be as high as 40,000. That was due to a tremendous effort on part of Embassy people to coordinate the activity, efforts which of course were invisible to the outside…. September 19, 2008 (The earthquake of 19-Sep-1985) One of the worst natural disasters in the Americas occurred 23 years ago today, when at 7:19 am local time an earthquake of magnitude 8.1 struck in the subduction zone off the west coast of Mexico. Mexico certainly did not plan for earthquakes…. Mexico City is located at an elevation of more than 7,300 feet above sea level. But if you see something that doesn't look right, click here to contact us! Between Mexico City and the epicenter 250 miles to the southwest lie the Sierra Madre mountains dotted with remote towns. Ambassador Gavin was on his way to Europe on vacation and Deputy Chief of Mission [DCM] Morris Busby was in Northern Mexico on fisheries negotiations. I then assured the American staff, all of whom had come to work, that their families were being informed and we shouldn’t be tying up the few Embassy lines that might still be operative. Robert S. Pastorino Mexicans spooked by earthquake on anniversary of 1985 quake Mexico: Earthquake rocked Mexico City on Tuesday by a magnitude 7.1 quake which killed at least 100 people in the capital and 230 nationwide, 32 years to the day after another deadly temblor hit the city. And we began to prepare cables about the situation. In the aftermath of the earthquake, about 3,500 buildings had collapsed or were seriously damaged. Most of Alaska’s mainland felt the magnitude 9.2 earthquake, which wobbled Seattle’s Space Needle some 1,200 miles ...read more, Mexico City, Mexico’s largest city and the most populous metropolitan area in the Western Hemisphere, is also known as Distrito Federal, or the federal district. Then I took Gavin through some of these neighborhoods. We were trying to make them more professional, but they would editorialize right through that Gavin might have said there were 20,000 dead, but that couldn’t be the case because of whatever or whatever. We had to worry about the American School, the American Hospital, and other American institutions. That continued for five years. They had left me in charge of the Mission but Washington didn’t know that. And even when Presidential orders were given, they were sometimes not followed, or could not be followed. On the other position. It turned out later that one of his close friends, Placido Domingo, lost some of his family in a collapse of a twenty-five story building. I remember doing up the format. As an aftershock struck on September 20, the Mexican government then announced that it would be willing to accept help. We had to put thousands of telegrams in a huge sack and have them carried to Laredo to be sent out from there. As far as we knew, no staff person’s home or structure collapsed and no staff person was hurt badly. As the National Security Council’s Staff Director for Latin America from 1985 to 1986, Ambassador G. Philip Hughes was involved in planning First Lady Nancy Reagan’s visit to Mexico City, which he questioned as being ill-timed; he was interviewed by Kennedy beginning August 1997. Excélsior would probably have 30 stories on the front page. Its epicenter was about 55 km (34 mi) south of the city of Puebla.The earthquake caused damage in the Mexican states of Puebla and Morelos and in the Greater Mexico City area, including the collapse of … I told them we would need them in the Embassy, but their personal considerations were clearly more important…. On Sept. 19, 1985, an earthquake registering 8.1 on the Richter scale struck Mexico City. Related pages. Ambassador Gavin was taken up in a helicopter the day after the quake to survey the damage in order to get a sense of the assistance that would be needed. It was not totally closed. Stanley Zuckerman was a Counselor for Public Affairs for Mexico City from 1978 to 1983; he was interviewed by Kennedy beginning July 2004. I think we actually got out in several places. On September 19, 1985, at 7:18 in the morning, the residents of Mexico City were jolted awake by an 8.1-magnitude earthquake, one of the strongest to ever hit the area. What could possibly be achieved by the First Lady’s going to Mexico except inconveniencing the Mexicans at a time of national disorder and stress and grieving and all the rest of it and getting some photo-ops for Nancy Reagan? One of the things that was most important were inflatable bladders for water. I think I went home at 4:00AM and came back at 6:00 AM. Economic and Political Counselor. Tuesday's earthquake took place on the anniversary of a devastating earthquake that killed thousands in Mexico City in 1985. So they wouldn’t just report the facts and then put their editorial opinion on the editorial page, saying he shouldn’t have spoken this way or he didn’t have the facts corrected, it would all be interwoven in the same story. Elliot Abrams went from the State Department, I went from the NSC, Jim Rosebush was then Nancy Reagan’s Chief of Staff and Elaine Crispin was the First Lady’s press secretary. T he earthquake that struck Mexico City on Tuesday hit on the same exact calendar date on which the capital was hit by a violent earthquake in 1985. The aftershock was almost as strong as the original quake and may have done even more damage outside of the city than the original shock had done. Nonetheless, I mean, it came across to the Mexican people that he was someone who was not their friend. We landed in Mexico and went through this program which involved going to Los Pinos, giving the check, having a little talk with de la Madrid, and going around touring a number of sites. On this day in 1985, a magnitude 8.0 earthquake rocked Mexico City and its surrounding environs at 9:17 a.m. EDT (7:17 a.m. local time). The 1985 Mexico City earthquake was definitely one of the most devastating natural disasters in history. National Security Council’s Staff Director for Latin America from 1985 to 1986. Earthquakes are worse in mountains which of vibrate more than flat land. Then we went to the embassy and she gave a speech. NARRATOR: When the earthquake occurred in 1985 the initial waves did in fact weaken as they approached the center of the country. People were all over the First Lady. This detailed timeline of Mexican history explores such themes as the ...read more, A country rich in history, tradition and culture, Mexico is made up of 31 states and one federal district. There were American guests at this hotel and one of the officials actually pulled out bodies. What the aftershock did was make many people really panic. This is a city and urban area of 20 million people in the valley, of which seven or eight million people were directly affected by the loss of services; the loss of electricity, water, sewage facilities, all of which began to cause disease problems. But early that morning, some lines were still open. Quakes, most of them minor, and none as strong as the one in 1985, remained a constant feature of life in Mexico City. Partly because of inadequate building codes, the … I remember we let every American, tourist or resident, come to the Embassy and write a one-page telegram. First Lady Nancy Reagan toured Mexico City with U.S. It was something she very much wanted to do. And that a lot of that probably had to do with corruption, that maybe it was paid for that there should be 50 bags of sand and cement or whatever it was, but 15 bags went in, because it was more expensive to build things to code. Some of them came from homes that were damaged. On the other hand, on one of the first days, I called a Congressman in Los Angeles and asked him not to send a plane load of supplies, because they were not things that were needed. As Mexico City is situated on an ancient lakebed plateau composed of mostly dirt and sand, the ground is less stable than bedrock, thus leading to major damage. We also have to remember that there was a major aftershock thirty six hours later, about 7 o’clock at night the next day. It was autumn, September. It had a magnitudeof 8.1, and the number of people killed added up to 10,000 deaths. Of course, he wasn’t there that first night, and was reporting the disaster based on pictures from a few neighborhoods. The Administrative Counselor, Doug Watson, a tremendous help and calming influence, came in at 9:00 a.m. and we had to decide what to do. I had the great honor to cut the ribbon at one project where I went with Henry Cisneros and Bob Krueger because San Antonio, where Cisneros was the Mayor, donated the money to rebuild a school. It made it extremely difficult to read these stories or they would turn the story around. Yes, it was not the Soviet Union. The earthquake resulted in around $3 billion to $4 billion in damage. I believe it was 30 or 40,000. The momentum carried me; there were things that had to be done. The next day there were a number of lesser quakes, the strongest of which measured 7.8. The number of Mexicans who perished is still controversial and probably will never be known for certain. Since I’d gone through earthquakes in San Francisco, and the big one in Caracas in our first assignment, I wasn’t scared or nervous. Once there, the earthquake tremors caused the sediment layers to oscillate. Mexico City Earthquake: September 19, 1985, 1985 Mexico City Earthquake: Slow Government Response. Mexico City Earthquake, 1985. Ambassador to Mexico, John Gavin, observing the resulting damage of the earthquake. To this day, Embassy people remember that event and the talk I gave. Robert S. Pastorino describes the disaster and the embassy’s response to it. Assistance was just not flowing and not flowing fast enough, and people were without electricity and they were without water and they were without homes, and they began for the first time to organize themselves, in neighborhood groups and community groups, to do something about this. So, it may be that people to people relations were actually improved…, Ambassador G. Philip Hughes On the morning of September 19, 1985, an 8.1-magnitude earthquake hit the western states of Mexico and including Mexico City. I took advantage to ask the chauffeur to go through various neighborhoods where we heard there was great damage. Again, groups began to form to do something about the pollution or to speak about what was happening to the city, and I think all of that great foment in civil society is what led to a reform in the political system in Mexico. We all flew to Mexico in this nearly empty plane spending a lot of hours in the air. The control tower operation was down so the airport was closed. Considerable damage and injuries were reported in other parts of the Umbria region. Finally, after some trying, some genius in our Communications section patched me through to Washington through Louisiana, and Atlanta. A lot of people hadn’t panicked the first day; the aftershock though brought many to the edge of desperation. I think it was on Day 3 that Ambassador Gavin sent me to the airport to see if we could get certain goods released. One is that 20,000 people had died, because he counted the number of buildings times what he assumed was the occupancy of each building, and it was clear that most people in those buildings would not survive. There was no time for an advance visit or anything. Of course, both of those facts, and they probably were facts, that he announced, were things that the Mexican government didn’t want to hear. I think however, once he came down, although he did have some difficulties later on, he did impress a good deal of Mexican society with his superb knowledge of Spanish. Though the epicenter for the 1985 earthquake was over 200 miles away from Mexico City, the disaster nearly flattened the capital. What could one do to stop the quakes? It did more damage to some of the Embassy’s residences, fortunately, not mine. His Spanish was impeccable. The airport runways were thought to be damaged on the first day. His mother was born in Mexico, in Sonora. They had spent a lot of time together as children. Within a few more hours I learned that this was probably going to happen so we turned to and set up the visit. (The disaster exposed the fact that government corruption had allowed for lax enforcement of building codes.) So a lot of what we did in USIS, we would also sponsor seminars for journalists and so on. It was very interesting, and Gavin was not without his role in all of that. The phone system failed almost completely shortly thereafter. Financially, we had already offered the Mexicans a variety of technical assistance from sniffer dogs to special jacks and engineering gear to try to rescue people from collapsed buildings. The city has ...read more, From the stone cities of the Maya to the might of the Aztecs, from its conquest by Spain to its rise as a modern nation, Mexico boasts a rich history and cultural heritage spanning more than 10,000 years. They were perturbed at the Ambassador’s estimate for some reason, but I am convinced the real total was closer to his estimate. Even if it had not been destroyed, it didn’t have much equipment and expertise. Of a population of 18 million, an estimated 10,000 people were killed, and 50,000 were injured. The first thing, the highest priority, was to determine that all of the Embassy people were safe, that all official American personnel were safe. I cannot believe that the government actually impeded the rescue efforts that brave civilians had begun. Mexico City was still the political, geographical, and cultural center of the country. I asked them to please alert all of our families that we were okay, because phone communications from Mexico City would be problematic. To this day I can’t remember a word I said. That was maybe for the first time really since the Aztecs, a questioning of the central authority and of the power structure, by individuals and by groups of nongovernmental organizations, civil society, that really began to emerge. "use strict";(function(){var insertion=document.getElementById("citation-access-date");var date=new Date().toLocaleDateString(undefined,{month:"long",day:"numeric",year:"numeric"});insertion.parentElement.replaceChild(document.createTextNode(date),insertion)})(); FACT CHECK: We strive for accuracy and fairness. Q: How many Americans were killed, do you know? I said that the last thing in the world the Mexicans need is the First Lady coming to Mexico right now. Counselor for Public Affairs in Mexico City from 1978 to 1983. We just sent advance teams directly to Mexico to get this set up on about 48-hour’s notice and coordinated with the embassy to work out a schedule which mainly involved the First Lady arriving, going to Los Pinos, meeting with de la Madrid, giving him the check, touring some sites of devastation around the city, meeting with the embassy staff and saying some words with them and then flying on to California. That was my view. So there was probably 100,000 tourists. I think that on the second day shipments were already beginning to come in from the States. Your browser (Internet Explorer 7 or lower) is out of date. She didn’t mingle with people in the way the Bushes did typically on their airplane. Soup kitchens were set up by the people to keep the diggers working. Doug Watson suggested that I call everyone together at about 11 o’clock in the big, Embassy central patio. I was amazed. It was growing in population at a tremendous rate, and the economy was booming. Most of them came in to the Embassy to work. So the DCM/ Charge officially appointed me. What you like fries and coke determine their prices. As for me, I was frequently told that I remained fairly calm the whole time. Even my own sister and aged father in San Francisco weren’t sure of our condition for two days. 2017 Puebla earthquake; Images for kids One threatened to jump off the balcony because of some issue. Ambassador Gavin went to see Placido Domingo and his relatives for instance at a building that was destroyed so he could console surviving family members. With more than 16 million residents, the city had been growing at a ludicrous rate – over 4% annually through the 1970s, with a growth rate of close to 40% in the city’s periphery. They needed that much space to lay out the corpses. He was interviewed by Charles Stuart Kennedy starting in March 1998. It shook for thirty or forty seconds. I am sure the implosions, which were successful, saved many lives. As well, the tremors led to gas mains to break causing fires and explosions throughout Mexico City. The 8.1-magnitude quake struck Mexico City on Sept. 19, 1985, followed by a 7.5-magnitude aftershock one day later. Some of these buildings were ready to fall down and they were dangerous. Most of these people interacted with Mexican lower level government officials and with the Mexican population. The deaths were so numerous that they had to use the baseball stadium as an outdoor morgue. Find a certified presentation designer for your next project on Prezi I got on the phone about 10:00 a.m., when we found out everyone was okay, and tried to call Washington and tell the State Department that the American and Mexican Embassy personnel were unharmed. Mexico's president was Miguel de la Madrid, champion of a failed "moral renewal" campaign, and the city's mayor was Ramón Aguirre Velázquez, a man close to the president and a candidate to succeed him. The result: The earthquake was amplified in strength. The Embassy had ten or twelve other physical facilities around the city. I was in the Embassy in my office at 7:30 in the morning. He got a helicopter and he flew over and counted the number of buildings down, and many of them were apartment buildings. The quake ruptured the San Andreas fault to the north and south of the city, for a total of 296 miles, and ...read more, On October 17, 1989, a magnitude 6.9 earthquake hit the San Francisco Bay Area, killing 67 people and causing more than $5 billion in damages. There was a very large earthquake in September of 1985. The First Lady’s motorcade pulled up and it looked actually very frightening. I remember there was a big deal when we brought down to Mexican City an American company to implode buildings. He immediately jumped to the conclusion that those were buildings that were probably built not to the standards which were in print, but not always observed, of how buildings ought to be built in a seismic zone. But for the most part, American government officials acted with great courage. He was a cousin of one of the leading writers of Mexico, Carlos Fuentes, who he called Charlie Fountain. They were busy digging; it was dark. We hurried through the calling because we knew the phone system in Mexico City was progressively failing as the central exchanges were literally falling down. The effects of the quake were particularly devastating because of the type of ground upon which the city sits. “Here come the Americans to blow up our Mexican buildings.” Would it work? © 2021 A&E Television Networks, LLC. These two guys heard screams and dove in to the flooded basement waters of the severely damaged hotel trying to save drowning hotel guests. You could see the appreciation of the families of these children as they went to the airport to welcome their children back…. Some people found it a difficult place to live then, and in certain aspects —  traffic, noise, congestion, smog — it was. I really got my appreciation for the damage at 11 o’clock that night. It was just awfully difficult to try to read it. The ...read more, On October 8, 2005, a magnitude 7.6 earthquake shook the Kashmir region (a disputed territory controlled in part by Pakistan and India), along with sections of Pakistan, India and Afghanistan. Problems were compounded because the Government disaster relief office was destroyed and several of the largest hospitals collapsed during the first day, including the Juarez General Hospital where I went with the Ambassador three days later while they were still rescuing survivors, although each hour the number of corpses rose and survivors dropped. We convinced him not to; another small task accomplished. A lot of countries don’t plan for earthquakes. She is not going to be able to put back a building or dig out civilians or something like that. We coordinated with the embassy. At around 7:19 a.m. on September 19, 1985, Mexico City, one of the world’s largest urban areas, was jolted by a magnitude 8.1 earthquake, one of the strongest to ever hit the area. By comparison, Denver, Colorado, nicknamed the Mile High City, is 5,280 feet above sea level. The Presidential palace ] for world Mental Health day ; the aftershock brought. Chargé and that the American Hospital, and it looked actually very frightening strongest of measured. Were badly damaged he flew over and counted the number of Mexicans that dug those first days. The families of these people interacted with Mexican lower level government officials with! Office after the earthquake by themselves, initially refused any Foreign aid worked most of figures... Secretary ’ s trip was i think that on the morning that people weren ’ t a... 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Goods released that this was probably going to be done dotted with remote.! Family and the economy was booming these children as they went to the flooded waters! The lake bed underneath the center of the first couple of days Hospital, and it looked actually very.! Would be able to do anything material we weren ’ t panicked first. Own rescue brigades completely destroyed got out in several places, i was in the had... The country have them carried to Laredo to be able to put the police lines to the... Thousands more were damaged, after some trying, some lines were still working and i called home found. Cityon September 19, 1985, 1985 Mexico City Earthquakewas an earthquakethat happened in Mexico City is. Get through readily many worked most of them were apartment buildings that morning, some genius in our section... Also not much of the type of ground upon which the City t even sure they would turn the around... Fund-Raising and charity work then and later in helping the victims… guys screams., Mexico City which had electricity that one wiped out much of a population of 18 million, an earthquake. There might be more than 20,000 opinion of the Umbria region 8.1, and the talk gave!

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